Rules has a record with 81 million streams. In this episode we sat down and worked out, live, roughly what a number like that actually pays once the label split, the co-writer split, management and three years of waiting have taken their turn. The answer surprised both of us.

We get into the Sydney scene before the government killed it, tall poppy syndrome and why nobody there wanted to see you rise, mixing the Ministry of Sound Clubbers Guide CDs, playing commercial sets in open format clubs to survive, and what it actually costs to leave your family and friends behind to chase it

In this episode we talk about the sober stints and 75 Hard routine that keep him sane on tour, why he nearly didn’t back High On Me, the fear of “selling out” and the advice that completely changed his perspective, how Acting Tough was discovered on TikTok before becoming a massive record on Homegrown, writing with topliners for the first time, why the six months before a release matter more than release day itself, and what success actually means once you’ve ticked every box.