Mista Jam has been on national radio for 21 years, which makes him one of the few people who can answer this properly: why does everything in dance music sound the same now? His answer isn't that producers got lazy. It's that the music was born from struggle, and the people who can afford to make it now never had any.

Rules has a record with 81 million streams. In this episode we sat down and worked out, live, roughly what a number like that actually pays once the label split, the co-writer split, management and three years of waiting have taken their turn. The answer surprised both of us.

We get into the Sydney scene before the government killed it, tall poppy syndrome and why nobody there wanted to see you rise, mixing the Ministry of Sound Clubbers Guide CDs, playing commercial sets in open format clubs to survive, and what it actually costs to leave your family and friends behind to chase it